When it comes to pop records, Cirkut's illustrious resume in the genre speaks for itself.
An in-demand electro-pop producer and songwriter, the 38-year-old artist, born Henry Walter, has spent the past two decades creating hits for artists such as The Weeknd (“Starboy,” “Die For You”), Rihanna (“Where Have You Been )), Katy Perry (“Roar”, “Dark Horse”), Miley Cyrus (“Wrecking Ball”), Charli XCX (“360”) and dozens more. But as he explains to Bulletin boardhe does his best not to get too comfortable with his success.
“I never want to rest on my past accomplishments and that vibe of, 'Oh, you know all my work?' Do you know all my hits?' explains. “That means nothing to me. Whether I'm working with the biggest star in the world or the youngest artist, you have to prove yourself over and over again.”
By his own definition, Cirkut has done just that: In the past month, the producer has helped launch two artists into the upper echelons of the Billboard Hot 100. His work with veteran hitmaker Lady Gaga on her dark pop single “Disease” sent the song at no. 27 chart debut. Meanwhile, K-pop sensation ROSÉ scored her highest-charting solo single with “APT.” featuring Bruno Mars, reaching No. 8, thanks in part to Cirkut's catchy production. He earned writing credits on both tracks.
The producer attributes the success of both Gaga and ROSÉ to their unique ideas about what they want in their music – a trait he looks for in all the artists he works with. “When an artist doesn't really know what they want to say, or says, 'I don't know, just make me a song,' that doesn't interest me,” he says. “The best artists always have some kind of vision, whether it's how they see the graphics coming together, how they want the guitar to sound, or how hard they hit the drums.
Below, Cirkut breaks down the writing processes for both “Disease” and “APT.”, why Lady Gaga stands out in a crowded pop star field, how an advertising drinking game inspired ROSÉ's hit song, and what she envisions for the future of pop music.
Let's go back to the beginning — when and how did you first get involved with Gaga and her team for this project?
It happened sometime last year — I was working with him [“Disease” co-writer/co-producer] Andrew Watt for a while. We [had] they worked on a few different things together, and one day he called me and said, “What do you think about working with Gaga?” He said we would be well suited to do this project together. So I met Gaga for the first time in the studio and it was amazing. I was so excited to work with her, we hit it off as soon as we met.
What did you immediately like about the prospect of working with Gaga?
I've been a fan all these years, she's just a legendary artist. There's only one Gaga, and she's influenced so many of the artists out there now. I think her music paved the way for so many people. Selfishly, I wanted to see what I could achieve with her. Just the thought of wondering what a Gaga record would sound like if I produced it was really exciting from the start.
When you look back at the beginning of “Disease,” was there a goal with that song? What did you aim to achieve?
It was just one song in a collection we worked on together, but pretty early on in the process, we all loved it and knew it was going to be some kind of cornerstone of this body of work. “Disease” [is] a bold record for me. It is very aggressive. I wouldn't say it's a safe, “nice” song to ease you into things. I was spending some time with my mom the other day and she asked me what I was working on — I played the music video for “Disease” and she was amazed and was like “oh my god” a lot. It's a very in-your-face kind of record.
I do all kinds of music, but I love aggressive electronic music. When Watt and I get together, something happens – with his rock background, we end up bringing a lot of heavy guitars and I wanted to make it this great, industrial synth dance record. When you listen to the final result, I'm very happy with how we combined those two things.
What do you remember about the studio sessions with Gaga here — were there any specific moments when you felt like things were really locked in for you?
We all got together in the beginning to see if we had any common ground in terms of taste in music and where we wanted to go with the sound. She was very instrumental in guiding this discussion. We all wanted to make something that still felt definitely Gaga, but we were always asking, “How does this sound today?” That's always a challenge, especially with artists who are so firmly established in pop culture, to find that balance. Are you doing something so different that you're moving away from the things you're known for? But if you're just doing the same thing you've been known for, does it end up feeling like a “more of the same” situation? I wanted to make sure we brought the essence of Gaga to this song and all the things that are so great about her – the drama, the theatrics, that in-your-face sound – but still put a new spin on it. That said, you also can't overthink things like this. Ultimately, you just have to get in there and have fun.
We definitely had a synergy in the studio. At first, it's a kind of trial run [with a new collaborator]. It felt a bit like he was feeling me out, trying to understand where I was coming from when it came to the production. But then there was a breakthrough moment – I was working on something in my headphones and when I played it out loud, he was like, “Oh my God, Chirkut, this is crazy.” And as soon as that happened it was like, “Great, I got her.” Not that he was hard to impress, but I wanted to be on the same page. I approach every project I work on like this — you have to approach it from the mindset of always being a learner, rather than a know-it-all. I always learn from new people.
You've worked on huge hits from artists like The Weeknd, Rihanna, Miley Cyrus, Kesha and Charli XCX. As someone who has been in the room with so many of these great pop stars, how does Gaga stand out among the pack?
I think one thing that all the great artists I've worked with have in common is that they all have a vision. Whether it becomes fully realized or not, it doesn't matter — there is always intent and direction behind the art they make. Even if this is not fully completed, I find it very important. There is always an opinion.
Gaga is a lot like that — she's very interested in the sonics of everything. He'd say, “Maybe try a different drum here,” or he'd jump on the synth and start playing stuff. He is a musician and visionary and knew all about attack, decay, sustain and release settings on a synth. It's all about the details, which definitely sets her apart from many artists. Also, the passion she puts into her work is amazing. He really lives and breathes and eats and sweats and bleeds this music.
“Disease” isn't your only track currently on the Hot 100 — “APT.” by ROSÉ, featuring Bruno Mars who debuted at No. 8 earlier this month. Tell me a little bit about how you got involved with this song and what ROSE and Bruno was like working together?
I'm not trying to say, “Oh, I knew this was going to be a hit,” because I just don't have that kind of foresight. But I thought this was a really great, fun, catchy song and I really enjoyed working with Rosie. I was so excited when he played the song for Bruno and I heard he was involved, because I really feel like he took it to another level.
We worked together probably three days straight in the studio, and I think [“APT.”] it was one of the last ideas we started. It was the end of the night, we'd just done a song or two and we were like, “Maybe it's time to go home.” And Rosie was sitting there just yelling to herself, “apateu, apateu.” I think it was [co-writer] Theron [Thomas] who stopped her and asked what it was. He said, “It's just a Korean thing, it's basically a drinking game.” We were all immediately like, “Why isn't it a song?” We took it and made a very quick hook. It was kind of random — I love it when things like that happen! It's not always planned. It's not always, “We're going to go into the studio and make a big hit with Bruno Mars.” Sometimes it's a spontaneous session based on a drinking game. Sometimes someone whispers something in the corner and it becomes this incredible hook.
As someone who has been as vital as you have been in creating these huge pop moments throughout your career, how do you see the direction pop music is headed today? What do you see in the pop space right now that seems like something that will continue in the future?
More than ever, almost anything goes. Today, because there is so much music out there, listeners are so demanding. They like what they like and it's up to us – creators, producers, songwriters, artists – to show people fresh, new stuff they haven't already heard 1,000 times. Sure, there are trends that come in and out of style, but sometimes, it can just be about changing one thing and suddenly you have a fresh new sound.
Honestly, I try not to think too much about all of this because it can be a little overwhelming. The “next sound” could literally be anything. I really try to create and not think about the future because that can eventually take away the spontaneity of it. Messing up and stumbling upon something you love is an accidental magic that happens. At the age of [artificial intelligence]I think it's a tool that's here to stay, whether people like it or not, and I think it could help when it comes to creativity in the studio. But at the end of the day, it's the human element of the production and songwriting that succeeds. People care about authenticity, they want something that's real, and listeners aren't stupid.
A version of this story appears in the November 16, 2024 issue Bulletin board.
from our partners at https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/cirkut-producer-lady-gaga-disease-rose-apt-interview-1235834421/
